D&D Discussion: Rules Lawyering Video

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Puffin Forest

7 months ago

In this video, I talk about an old video and conversation I had with about rules lawyering. Hope you guys enjoy!
"Sunshine Samba" by Chris Haugen from the USshow Audio Library.

Nekuia Ostergod
Nekuia Ostergod 14 hours ago
I love rolling for stats. But I haaaate when you get a three stat. Like rolled up an 18 is awesome, but there are ways to make it better or worse. Rolling up a 3, you can't in some cases make it worse. Lower STR or dex, you are a cripple. Lower con, you die. Be come brain dead, or worse. I have rolled more threes as a stat then 18s in the past few weeks and I cry so much.
Hydra Productions
Hydra Productions 3 days ago
A fun thing to do when making a new character is to roll up your stats first and then choose race, class, alignment and everything based off what you get.
Once i really wanted to kill not really important npc. DM was discussing with me about hour, when we decided to roll check of charisma. I rolled nat 20. He gave up, but also i now have a curse on me: every time I get an xp, i get a new curse. Worth it.
Mitchell Slate
Mitchell Slate 4 days ago
I love the Dice Flail still!
Desterii DelQuonomonna
Desterii DelQuonomonna 4 days ago
its 4d6 add the best 3, do *not* reroll 1's in 5th edition PHB...we rerolled 1's in first and second edition because you needed higher numbers to get modifiers in the old system
Hare Krishna Uncommon pastimes
Hare Krishna Uncommon pastimes 4 days ago
Chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare💛 A person who chants the holy name of Kṛṣṇa once can counteract the resultant actions of more sinful activities than he is able to perform.
Matt .Colwill
Matt .Colwill 5 days ago
Ah yes. The misty step and darkness problem. I did a compromise that the players have to do a perception check to tell where they were going. If they fail. I chose where they went.
DFC/ Double fudge cookiees
DFC/ Double fudge cookiees 6 days ago
For the “advantage/disadvantage” problem if somebody realizes then I just say, ok well it gets added in now, if that last attack had advantage, but we didn’t catch it, then this attack has advantage and that seems to work pretty well for us
Brandon Brooks
Brandon Brooks 8 days ago
In my campaigns I do 4d6 drop the lowest when ever I play.
pafnutiytheartist 9 days ago
I am that person who likes 4d6 drop lowest but not 3d6 flat. I like randomness that is slightly in my favour. It can give me something amazing or something average, but it wont give me something unplayably bad. Point buy and arrays are fine but there are no pleasant surprises.
Noah C
Noah C 11 days ago
My way is if you forget that's how it happened
LittlestTeapot 14 days ago
Great Video! A Rules Enthusiast is not the same as a Rules Lawyer.
Meow? Meow.
Meow? Meow. 15 days ago
Fully agree with just about everything here. Manipulating the rules inconsistently to give yourself an advantage is *annoying* and not tolerated at my table. Everyone follows the rules, and you don't pick up dice after rolling them. And, of course, GM has the final say, always. I'm lucky to have players that *do not* argue with my rulings, and only bring up rules I, or another player, may have forgotten. Which makes them rather helpful sometimes when I forgot to tick burn damage the last 3 turns. About making mistakes in combat: Rerolling dice after you roll the wrong way isn't how it's done at my table. If you roll the wrong die out of habit, such as rolling a d20 for actions when my game uses d100s, we just multiply the result by 5 to get the correctly-scaled result. Added the wrong modifier? Just add the right one, don't reroll. Rolled normally when you should've had advantage or disadvantage? Keep the first roll, and just roll another die to see if it changes anything, turning it into advantage/disadvantage. And, since it's online and naturally all dice are rolled in order, if you rolled with advantage/disadvantage when you should've done a normal roll, the first result is chosen. If I screwed something such as rolls up a few turns ago, I'll either just keep going, or use a compensation system. Enemy was supposed to have disadvantage a while ago, but didn't? Oh, well, they have disadvantage now. Fair is fair. If it's something like forgetting burn damage ticks, I just apply the proper number of burn ticks all at once, and then move on.
DM Stantastic
DM Stantastic 15 days ago
I can be flexible however I will never allow bullies at my table. It's my job as the DM to critique what a player is doing and not another players place to jump someone's shit over how they're playing. Funny story the first time I got my wife to sit in on a game I was DMing for adventure league I had a player that started talking over everyone searching trying to grab up any loot before anyone could do anything (for the 2nd time) buuuut I put everyone in initiative and when asked why I explained that at my tables everyone gets a chance to play not just him. He very rationally..... stood up and started screaming at me...... The joke became "You have just screamed in the DMs face in front of his wife..... he is a veteran and has 50lbs on you..... roll initiative."
W 16 days ago
Your anecdote about the dice roll/point buy situation is pretty judgmental. Wanting the stats that are statistically going to be the highest isn't a character flaw. We shouldn't all have to sign a contract with the patron diety of point buy to use that system, to the exclusion of all others. You and the players had a miscommunication and frankly, they were in the right. A lot of people go into a campaign wanting to play a specific class, but if you roll a 3 on strength for your barbarian, you're not playing a barbarian. You're playing a paralyzed Conan cosplayer, and you will not survive, let alone deal damage to anything. There's not a lot of stats I'd like sitting at a 3. 4d6 drop lowest at least mitigates that extreme edgecase. And if you're just going to let people reroll if they get a terrible set of rolls, then you may as well have done 4d6. Character flaws are fun! Low stats can give character to your character. But a 3 isn't a low stat in most cases. It's a disability, and will severely impact your character's ability to perform in some key aspect. 3 strength? Noodle arms. 3 dex? Burst inner ear. 3 con? Brittle bones. 3 int? Borderline brain damaged and/or feral. 3 wisdom? Memory of a goldfish, or naive to the point that they can't *not* fuck up every situation they're in. 3 charisma? Goes beyond your average edgelord and into comically unlikable, to the point where your character can't negotiate at all without making things worse. The rolls reflect this, too. It will dictate the course of your character's life and the experience you'll have at the table. Some people may want to experience the ultra hard road or the keks of an inept character, but I can't blame anyone that doesn't. Neither should you.
John Fleming
John Fleming 16 days ago
I'm not sure how Puffin doesn't understand why people like the idea of rolling for stats but hate the randomness. Have you never heard of the concept of "gambling"?
Entelin 16 days ago
I mostly have/had familiarity with 2E which I think is mainly where the "rules lawyering" term came from. When you said that most people use the term to refer to people who adhere strictly to the rules, that's *sort of* true. The problem with 2E is that there were *tons* of companion rulebooks, far more than 5e has, and 2e's notions of balance were loose at best. In other words if you had no restrictions on rules, the game was totally out of control by default. So players could point to plenty of things "rules as written" to advocate for any amount of nonsense and the GM would need to home brew things to a far greater extent than in 5E to keep things sane. It was fertile ground for D&D court basically.
Dylan 40k
Dylan 40k 17 days ago
I once played with a group and the player I was sitting next to was fudging dice, so I spoke to the DM and the DM was cool with it so I just left the group. I love D&D and role playing in general because there is always that sense of what if you fail that you need to think about. Having another player at the table just taking charge and fudging his rolls doesn’t sit well with me.
TheCopyto 19 days ago
I remember a guy who said that coup de grace was evil and that good characters cant use coup de grace, and he didnt let people role play the way they wanted, stopped playing with him it was a pain in the ass.
Nova Drake
Nova Drake 21 day ago
Reminds me when i looked at the ac for chain mail and i looked unknowingly at Splint armor and i have defence fighting style and i use a shield and i misscounted i got ac 20 but it was ac 19 that meens several misses should have been a hit 🤕 ouch well i fixed that
TinyRyhno999 21 day ago
Personally I prefer point but because I tend to have ideas for characters and how I would rp them then creating them, and giving them stats that fit their character, and with rolling it is hard to do that type of stats for rp thing.
Quirky View
Quirky View 23 days ago
I way prefer point buy over rolling cause rolling can ruin a character idea. I never go into character creation stats first, the first thing I do is decide who he is as a person. Rolling stats can screw with what he's supposed to be like.
Joshua Palmer
Joshua Palmer 23 days ago
Well said Sir.... Well said
Torbdan 23 days ago
I completely understand the "I like rolling for stats but I don't like how random it is" thing. My first character I made was a necromancer aasimar, I wanted him to be the face of the party because his whole deal was that he was from a long line of lords and he wanted to found his own kingdom. The problems started when I rolled for my stats and my highest stat was a 14, everything else was 11 or lower. I had the choice of making a really dumb wizard or a really uncharismatic king. When we got about 10 levels in, my dm made a joke about how I put all my stats in the wrong spots for what I wanted to build for and when I showed him my base stats, he realized I just rolled garbage.
PErson 24 days ago
Me, who enchanted the ever living hell out of my items: he he rules go trash! *starts shooting the enemies to death infinite fire bullets from a Gatling gun*. Or you could just use the Dingo doodles method of: fun trumps rules.
Soul of Ash
Soul of Ash 25 days ago
4d6 Reroll 1s? WTF? That's just OP. I mean, I've used 4d6 drop the lows, roll 7 times, reroll lowest of the 7. But never heard of "reroll 1s." That's just... Gods, so OP.
STARSRav3n 25 days ago
The "I like rolling but hate the randomness" is them saying essentially that its too risky a chance that an important stat to their character can end up a 3 or 8. Making their character effectively useless and they will have to end up making a new character in the first few sessions because they are a fighter with a -1 to their rolls. So you end up wasting everyone's time and have to start planning a new character immediately. Thats why people like the 4d6 RR1s. That means a TOTALLY worst case scenario you can end up at 8 and at best case a 20. Though I think a fair trade for the RR1 would be they have to RR 1d6 if they end up at a 20 stat If you do 3d6 no RR1 then 3. 3 is a totally viable risk that can fuck an entire character. Artificer with 3 INT? Well thats a useless character.
weckar 25 days ago
3d6 in order. That's your stats. Live with it.
weckar 25 days ago
I am a proud rules lawyer. But damn I will argue for both sides to keep with the rules, whether it is good for me or not.
Kreiser_VII 26 days ago
I actually thought Rules Lawyers were just those who make everything complicated for the sake of staying true to the original structure of DnD, I think I'll stick with that definition and call these guys you talk about Rule Brewers or something, or perhaps Rule Prosecutor could be for the original definion I gave
Ghost 26 days ago
I really liked it though
Mike Evans
Mike Evans 27 days ago
6:23 I mean, come on. It's just not feasible. Dragons would have cloacas. Nothing to punch.
TheEvilDM 27 days ago
Pretty simple way to handle all this. Game session 0 (or 1) lay down the law, you are the DM, your decision is final, but can be discussed during a break or after the game, not during and no books allowed at the table except for the book you need for your class abilities/spells..etc. Been playing since the ‘80s and this is how we handle it in the OSR with our games.
DFC/ Double fudge cookiees
DFC/ Double fudge cookiees 29 days ago
Hey Ben I think it’s great that not only are you improving, but are willing to change your opinion and admit when you think you’ve made a mistake, great job man!
Gho5tRUN3R 29 days ago
Who rolls for stats with 3d6 and NOT for 4d6 drop the lowest? Aren't you supposed to be the hero in a campaign? Any farmer could pick up a sword and immediately die in a dungeon. You're special because you don't immediately die in the dungeon.
stephanie_barrett Month ago
"I love rolling for stats, but I hate that it's random." I know this sounds like a oxymoron for the reason Puffen pointed out, but I feel this point of view. I once played a tiefling Warlock who was nearly driven mad by her Elder God patron. She talked in metaphors and was often distracted by things unseen (her wisdom was 6, something you can't do with point buy). Her charisma, stamina & intelligence was grate but she rolled crud for initiative which became a running joke about her being distracted by "other things". The point is, over all she was balanced, but you don't always get one crazy low number (we used roll 4d6 pick 3d6) and if you don't happen to have one you can't do that kind of character concept. You can describe your character as mad, or frale but if the have a 8 (minimum score in point buy) that only goes so deep. A 8 in constitution wouldn't cause someone to be bedridden, just as a 8 in wisdom wouldn't cause someone to hallucinate.
Sean Marchant
Sean Marchant Month ago
How to handle situations that aren't strictly RAW is a *really* hard line to walk sometimes. I'm very well versed in 5e rules, to the point where I've never played with anyone, player or DM, who knows the rules as well as I do. I'm also an avid homebrewer, so I've studied the balance of the system extensively. The result of this is that out of politeness I generally avoid calling other people when a rule is ignored, even when the houseruling is flagrantly broken, because they don't know enough to understand the issues with them. At the same time, I feel guilty trying to worm houserules out of the DM because I *know* they're OP, and I feel like asking for a broken ability is unkind to the DM and the other players. It's really hard to find a balance that's comfortable and fair for everyone.
Jacob Gibbs
Jacob Gibbs Month ago
One of the first sessions I ran 5e, a ranger wanted to dual wield a short sword in their off hand. I was more familiar with a system where they needed some sort of proficiency (which they did not have), and didn't know p195 of the PHB by heart. So instead of stopping the flow of the game, I told them to take a -5 on their off hand attack (still add their bonuses, not using the bonus attack for the left hand) and we'd look up the actual rule later. The next morning I wake up to an essay in my party's group text explaining the rule perfect method of two handed fighting. I later had to write that jackass out of the campaign because he was moving to another state. I should have killed his character, but their fate was undetermined. Good riddance.
אני תומך בישראל Ani’ mi Elohim, ve
אני תומך בישראל Ani’ mi Elohim, ve Month ago
I LARP, and one time I forgot I had a magic item limit and used like 5 magic items instead of the two low tear ones I was supposed to used. So I talked to a gm and we decided to role play it like I had exerted extreme metal energy to do it, so he raised my limit and gave my character a really crazy insanity in exchange. Idk seemed like a fun solution to me.
Blue13rain Month ago
The highest modifier you can get with standard array is +2 and if you want to play something better you HAVE TO play a race that adds benefits. Theyve been patching this with dragon marks and possibly whatever tasha's is coming up with. Otherwise it's asking your players if they want to possibly be forced to play a character with potentially -4 to all stats. As for other stuff especially when it comes to spells, they are horribly named. The spell darkness makes everyone who looks in that area see things in extremely low light. Things outside are not under the effect of the spell and can be seen perfectly normally. A spell like UMBRAL FOG would keep you from seeing and teleporting out of it because when you try to look out all you see is the dark cloud of darkness. Like faerie fire deals fire damage, riiiiight? No. It's luminous snow, the exact opposite of fire damage. Fireball is a ball of fire you throw, riiight? NO! It is a laser pointer of gas-leak-ignition. In this way dnd basically penalizes players when they use magic. You are right in you definition of rules lawyering. Imagination needs consistent structure to stick* to in cooperative story-telling. Sometimes WOTC gets a little PAM happy with magic.
K A Month ago
That was an awesome video. I discovered you when my players shared that video with me.
Chucklebot_3000 Month ago
My luck is fucking awful I'm the only one of my group that can roll all 1s on damage for a spell TWICE
natskis Month ago
But remember, you're the DM. A player refuses to reroll... "all of a sudden you hear the door swing open and two more guards rush in"...
Arthur O
Arthur O Month ago
I don't like that I'm always rules as written even when it's against me, but the dm I currently have doesn't like how rules are written and says that they will rewrite that rule later and doesn't let me have my advantage that my feat literally says I have lol
ObsidianKnight90 Month ago
Playing a TRPG requires good faith. If you can't act with sincerity and integrity, don't play.
Carlos Fernadez
Carlos Fernadez Month ago
i liked your old video better. dislike
hal hibben
hal hibben Month ago
Don't play with Moscow Mitch.
Benjamin Wells
Benjamin Wells Month ago
One of my long time players in my group is a power gamer and only reads rules in ways that make him come out O.P. He will argue for hours to get his way or just say your wrong and ignore you to get his way. But the moment someone else tries it, he gets all butt hurt and starts arguing about how it's not how the rules state it. So my players go out of there way to ruin his good time. Especially ever since I made a rule about players aren't allowed to attack each other's to get there way over another player. Now since he can't lich them to death with bullshit spells he just mopes about.
Savor The Robot
Savor The Robot Month ago
God groups that dont tell you bad stuff, or dare to suggest the dm should track there hp. I tpk those people.
Penguin Pirate
Penguin Pirate Month ago
How i do starter stats: Standard roll for stats. I roll stats for one set (6 numbers, 4d6-wost dice) Then i make the ENTIRE party use those numbers. Assign them any way you want, but numbers are the same.
Aranneas Month ago
i think this is mostly failure of social contract. if it happens consistently i'd agree, you should really consider not playing with those groups
Matthew Porter
Matthew Porter Month ago
Honestly, as one of the two rules “know it alls” in my group, my favorite thing is when I can point out something to help someone else. “Oh you do get advantage on that attack, that goblin has disadvantage, you get to +2 AC from half cover, you do get 1d6 more damage from that ability you used last round.” It makes all the moments I have to point out something is wrong worth it.
Myaora Month ago
For me, "rule of cool" translates to "things the players could normally do but want to be fancy with" Example: Players are in a bar fight and the rogue wants to swing from a chandelier to get to an enemy and make an attack. If the player could've done the same thing by just walking there and attacking, I'll let them do that. If the player avoids an obstacle or expects to not receive an attack of opportunity by doing that, then it's a no-go.
MK Month ago
12 attacks per turn is easy in 3.5e dnd. And probably in pathfinder, although I don't think you can do 12 attacks in one turn at level 4 in pathfinder.
Richard Clough
Richard Clough Month ago
Also. I kind of like random stats. But I hate them at the same time. Because I once rolled, no joke, with 4d6 reroll 1s, was 14, 11, 11 10, 10, 10.
Richard Clough
Richard Clough Month ago
Frying Panda
Frying Panda Month ago
Why does the guy in the thumbnail use light mode?
ericb31 Month ago
here's a hilarious comic involving "retcon rolls": www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html
BBTManiac Month ago
I like rolling for stats when you still have choice. The potential for high stats is greater, and if you eat shit on the rolls you have to think creatively to make do. More fun than point buy. What's absolute garbage is rolling for stat blocks. The first and last time i did so the rules were as follows; 5D6, drop the highest and lowest, swap two stats once. One complete do over, no going back to the first. No choice, the swap only let you pick dump stat or make sure you didn't have a 5 constitition. The game didn't get past the first session.
Me Notme
Me Notme Month ago
Players these days. If you're trapped in a dark dungeon with no way out don't whine about how you can't teleport out of there. Instead ask the DM if you can roll to intimidate the darkness. Or, if your character is a bard, ask if you can roll to seduce the darkness.
scytheakse Month ago
We had one player who could never understand dm is god. Every game was an argument. Then I've also dropped from a game because he ruled that daggers were ammunition. I'm currently dming my first game and all my players know it so we're kind fluid on rules. So far it has been a fun setup.
Apollohates Hisdayjob
Apollohates Hisdayjob Month ago
Rolling for stats: Random AND Balanced I pitched a system to my group of friends, and so far it has been super popular among both player and dms, as well as among random people and dnd groups ive talked to online, and i hope it starts catching on both for player and dm sake..Roll some of your point buy! :) 15+2d4. 20+3d4 Whatever! Just add some randomness within manageable parameters!! What I mean by that is let's say you normally run a point buy 20 game (or whatever number, adjust accordingly.) Well, you want to give the players a chance to roll dice while having a general idea of their power levels. So instead of stating "this game is point buy 20" and everyone make min maxed cookie cutters, say "this game is point buy 15 Plus 2D4." This gives them a point buy total of 17-23, which is absolutely manageable. Even giving them 3d4 which gives them 18-27 isn't going to break the game terribly. Because the point buy cost increases as stats increase in most games, a player having an additional 7 points over another may only mean the difference between a 16 and an 18 in a single ability score. The low rollers get to be guaranteed a functional character, high rollers may now get to play suboptimal builds that now can function with extra points, and the characters aren't cookie cutter!
Apollohates Hisdayjob
Apollohates Hisdayjob Month ago
Even a point buy 10 in pathfinder means a player could have all 10s and a single stat with 16. 3d6 is scarry for players because they don't want to enter a game crippled with a stat stuck below the lowest point buy dump stat. Pathfinder point buy, the lowest you can dump stat a base ability before racial modifiers is 7. With 4d6 reroll 1s, your Highly unlikely minimum is 6. In 3d6 flat, it's minimum 3. And that could drop from racial.. it is technically possible to make a character dead the instant you choose your race if your rolls were bad enough.... Personally, I am more afraid of bad rolls than I am eager for good rolls. I've played in games where my highest roll was a 14 and played along side characters that had multiple 18s and I outlived them... But when your 9th level wizard gets hit by a CR3 shadow for 1d6+1 STR damage, your character only had a Strength score of 6 to begin with, and the Shadow rolls max damage....... At that point you begin to deeply resent crippling rolls, because you had been playing that character for several months now, you survived through numerous battles, and now this nothing encounter that your character got ambushed by, so never had a chance to cast a single thing for defense just flat out instakills your character...............
Apollohates Hisdayjob
Apollohates Hisdayjob Month ago
Context matters.. I have absolutely mentioned rules that hurt me, and in the end contributed to my character dying.. But I was also the only immediate fatality at that time... However, there have also been plenty of times when the dice have turned against us, and my thinking has been "if the dm isn't bringing up this obscure rule that should tpk us, he may be trying to subtly show us mercy, and I should not challenge that." Fundamental thing for me, I will call out rules both for and against myself, but I won't say a word if it would kill another player... that is between them and the DM
Brendan Mesters
Brendan Mesters Month ago
Personally I just think players should say what they think should happen, explain it and let the DM decide. With that misty step in darkness example for example I may personally rule it as “roll a wisdom check to see if you end up in a wall suffocating to death of survive where you wanted to be :-)”
The Meer
The Meer Month ago
Speaking as someone who's played D&D for 22 years and has run and played in a LOT of games... rolling 3d6 for stats is not fun. Except for the DM. It's fun for them. 4d6 drop lowest has been the go-to for my group forever (though recently we've taken to just using point-buy of relatively high numbers). And why? Because we want to have fun. People like having not-crap stats. You're playing a game about power and drama and magic.. low stats is for Real Life ;D Except when running a grim and gritty storyline. But that's a whole other story~
TheAnon03 Month ago
I do have to admit, I do quite like starting with high base stats, I'm that guy who set every stat to 18 for every character in the old Eye of the Beholder games.
Afull Metalwar
Afull Metalwar Month ago
When I agree to change the rules or apply new rules, it applies to PC and NPCs. Explain how it can be used against them and then ask again if they are sure. Most times they say no once they realize
Ladoran2002 Month ago
Had a group where the DM had a girlfriend that played (not the issue), every time it became her turn she would want to do something and was given the opportunity to roll for it she would argue semantics. Even if he told her that her dice roll of a 2 was not enough, the argument was coming. You just had to be prepared for her turn to take 20 minutes or more from arguing the whole damn situation.
kapitan19969838 Month ago
Can You upload the old rules lawyering video? Please Ben, it's one of my favourites
K Tsou
K Tsou Month ago
rules are for me to inflict on other people.....oooooofff
K Tsou
K Tsou Month ago
also love you Puffin/Ben
sorakun555 Month ago
My DM just had a general rule of: Once the turn has ended, that's canon. Many a time us players have forgotten about some debilitation we had. Equally as many times, the DM has forgotten an entire mechanic of the boss he designed. We always just shrug it off and carry on cuz that's just easier to do.
hk4124 Month ago
I got so many thoughts on this so here it goes. First off as a DM what I say goes, I know that upsets some people but that is the whole reason there is a DM, don't like it? Go play a single player RPG. As a DM I mainly go RAW unless there is a good RP reason something different would happen in which case you explain yourself, I make a call, end of discussion, no trying to talk me into something for 20 minutes. If I or a player misses something like the PC or a monster having advantage/disadvantaged and we catch it on the same turn it gets corrected. Once the turn is over whatever happed is what happened. As for rolling stats pick a system you like. If you only want to roll if I allow 4d6 reroll 1-3 and drop the lowest then you are just trying to play the system, there is no point in even worrying about stats you may as well just asked me to let you start with 18s in all(never going to happen). For my table you get 4d6 drop the lowest or a modified point buy.
Oakheart Month ago
Sorry man, 3d6 sucks, the problem is not with randomness, it is with randomly sucking.
rageface memeaholic
rageface memeaholic Month ago
I like the idea of accepted game-state. In Yu-Gi-Oh if someone cheats or makes a mistake if you don't catch it while they are doing it and continue the game, the game state is now accepted and you can't retcon it. I try to always take that stance in game. I only like rolling for stats because point buy limits you to 15 in a stat. I hate that so much, I don't want to feel limited.
Novasiri Month ago
Reminds me of a ruling my DM made in curse of Strahd. We home-brewed that using Cure Wounds on undead would do damage, and necrotic spells healed them. One of our players got turned into a Revenant, an undead, and when they got hurt in combat, our cleric attempted to heal him. I did chime in, reminding him of the ruling, and thankfully no one argued against me, the cleric actually leaned into his mistake because his 'character might not have realized' and thus.. accidentally downed our reverent ranger. Another was our DM forgot to roll at advantage for some barbarians attacking my wizard, they were raging so they should have had it. I used shield to get away from the first attack, but I did remind him he had advantage about near the end of the enemies turn. So he rerolled it, got a crit. And that's how my wizard lost a leg and got to get a prosthetic. XD An instance of 'rules lawyering' turned hilarity or added to a character~
The Hamster05
The Hamster05 Month ago
I miss the old videos . A real shame you took them down...
Mike Ockhurts
Mike Ockhurts Month ago
The rule of cool should only go into play if your barely braking the rules. Grappling, for example. Raw, you can only grapple a creature that is at max one size larger then you. However, if a player wanted to grapple a creature much larger than them, i would let them, because its cool and its barely breaking the rules.
Ruckal The Gahd
Ruckal The Gahd Month ago
I play with some gigaxian buddies every once in a while, and the stat rules we use are simple once you learn them. You have 84 total points before racial bonuses. I love this because it lets certain builds be possible that weren’t before (because they require decent to great stats), and it allows for stats more powerful than point buy, but not random like rolling. It also even out the table naturally because it’s not random. There’s also the rule of honor of “don’t do 3 18s and 3 10s, that’s an obvious dick move”. You try and mix it up. The only complaint I have is that there are too many points total, but that easily fixed with a lower total. That’s my take on stats, and I basically agree with Ben on everything else.
Charles Graff
Charles Graff Month ago
I always have players who forget to add their proficiency bonus into rolls on online sessions and when I point that out as a player they Reroll instead of just you know, ADDING THE NUMBER TO THEIR ROLL FROM BEFORE!!!
Cixhel fox
Cixhel fox Month ago
Maan last session i had a player argue with me, because he as the only dwarf among humans and added to that having two wounds on his leg, had to make an athletics check to get over a hole jumping, well I just stood my ground and was like come on, just roll the dice
Pink Lion Gaming
Pink Lion Gaming Month ago
The "rule bending" is always just a huge buff to one character (its never me cause I don't try to gain advantage by breaking the rules)
Pink Lion Gaming
Pink Lion Gaming Month ago
Mabye if the only time the gm bent the rules for me wasn't to screw me over I wouldn't mind him letting everyone else do stuff that mechanically and logically they shouldn't be able to do
Classy Gaming Collective
Classy Gaming Collective Month ago
There is a simple rule that my groups always understood. DM is in charge. In any given instance, the DM can override all rules at any time. The reason being, the DM is in charge of implementing fun. So under no situation, can the players actually question whether the DM is allowed to have the bugbear jump any distance. The player can question as to whether "rules as written" is being followed in a given instance, but the DM can say, "For this, I am not following rules as written." And this is the end of it. This is much better. As a DM, I could follow "rules as written" and annihilate all my players because I know the rules far better than they do and I am capable of spawning infinite mobs, or creating unbeatable ability combos. I could make archers that fire 7 shots a turn because they multi-classed. To challenge a DM on whether they are following rules is fine, but to say that a DM must always follow rules is incorrect. DnD fun wasn't meant to fit into that box. Once, I noticed my players were having less fun because they were too concerned with following the rules, and not concerned enough with being creative in a combat turn. They would just spam their best ability over and over again and it was starting to ruin play. To combat this, I told players they no longer had to follow the rules on their turns and could just think creatively what their characters might do on a turn to damage the enemy, and then I as a DM would assign a role or roles to measure whether they succeeded. It freed up play. One player had their own familiar start to peck at the Gnoll's eyes, giving the Gnoll disadvantage on any further attacks. Another player started doing called shots, disabling weak minions in battle. They began thinking outside the box and outside the limited actions available on their character sheets. However, if you try this with too many nerds at the table that want to maximize every rule, this breaks the game for them. This is why roleplay is more important than rule following. If people want mechanics to follow, there are better balanced games than DnD. DnD, in the end, turned out to be a great game for roleplay while using mechanics as a secondary.
Alan Trough
Alan Trough Month ago
6:03 I expect my table to keep track of everything involving their character. I try to keep an eye on it, and if it's a negative effect I keep a closer eye, but it's their job as players to be honest and keep track of what's going on. If theres no threats or penalties, theres no real reason to put encounters. I was also blessed with a very good table tho
Joel Domenichini
Joel Domenichini Month ago
You are very wrong about the reasons people like rolling for stats. They like it because it is statistically and on average higher and that’s what their response should tell you.
Tiny Toybox Films
Tiny Toybox Films Month ago
Love your Bossa credits music...
The Great Owl
The Great Owl Month ago
"Rules are for me to inflict on others" - American evangelicals
Mitchell Slate
Mitchell Slate Month ago
Also...I think you found out perhaps that some people liked that video...Because there are enough rules lawyering in that way. There are people who act the way you describe. You've seen it. Others have. Don't beat yourself up for calling out a problem. I think you are doing and saying the fair and truthful thing. Also with the whole Random vs point buy, we agree with everything you say in the video including this. However...Watching the video a few times, I could also see that some people love rolling for what you say, the fingerprint thing, and even randomness...But regret when things go super poorly because it is random at the same time...Some of that mixed view and bag might be what some might take issue with. Otherwise, agree. Very plain truth, its random, it is supposed to be random, and enjoyed as such...Variation, uniqueness, something the dice provide.
Mitchell Slate
Mitchell Slate Month ago
I think you had it right the first time, and have clarified for the most part here...At least from what I remember...
Nathan P
Nathan P Month ago
Nobilis.Thank you just for saying the name. I searched for that video just to find back the name. So thank you.
Theboredone Month ago
I like to be a min maxer. I want to get everything i can out of my character. Its awesome to think and find out about builds and spell combinations that are super strong or even break the game. Tho i would never use gamebreaking stuff its interesting to think or talk about it and to know there is crazy shit you could do out there :D
The Amazing Arsonist
The Amazing Arsonist Month ago
I liked the original Rule Lawer video, and I liked the example you gave about that guy who was restrained and still wanted to make his attack of opportunity, only to then conveniently forget about that rule when it applied to someone else. I think it illustrated well that people who want to follow the rules 100% are not the issue, its the people who only wanted to pick and chose or the rule hagglers as you said.
Taylor Weinmeister
Taylor Weinmeister Month ago
I know the DM has a lot of fucking shit to deal with so i generally try to help out and keep track of stuff. a common thing in my group is my allies forget to add their modifiers and i remind them they got +4 to that or whatever it is. And i'll call someone out if they are trying to do something against the rules, but i also more than welcome anyone to call me out if im not paying enough attention and try to do something i cant. I agree with hating the hypocritical a lot.
SantiLokyyo 2 months ago
All I have to say is: Rule 0
siviblakhawk 2 months ago
Man... I feel super sorry for the people you have to play with or run for. Or maybe I should feel blessed for my groups?
Richard Duryea
Richard Duryea 2 months ago
Recently I realized that I had been playing the game wrong. I mostly blame the book for poor work choice and then D&D beyond for letting me break said rules. But at least my mistake was consistent and didn't break the game.
SlyFlySpyGuy 2 months ago
My sister is a rules lawyer, and she doesn't even play D&D.
MagicalClaraRose 2 months ago
My only real issue with rolling for stats is that it results in imbalanced parties. You're usually gonna have one player roll absurd stats and another roll kinda garbage and it throws the whole party dynamic off. It's why I try to use point buy for everything, but I also mostly play Pathfinder 1e. If 5e point buy wasn't so terrible...
Dan Felder
Dan Felder 2 months ago
For rolling for stats, a lot of people like the idea of discovering your character through rolls. This is why rolling on character creation tables is popular for things like backstories. Thing is, D&D is designed around players having a 15 or 16 in their class' key stat. It determines spells per day, to-hit rolls, spell save dcs, etc. A fun "roll for stats" system would involve rolling to determine which stat array you're using. The arrays would all be playable, but be very different. One would include a 20 but also have a lot of 4s and 6s. Others would be more like normal D&D distributions. You could also roll to determine which stat each number in the array is assigned to, but that usually means severely restricting your viable class options. Still, if you want to discover your character through rolling it's a cool option. And yes, some of the arrays would probably be better than others, that's part of the fun of rolling for stats, but none would be unplayable.
Dan Felder
Dan Felder 2 months ago
Another problem with rules lawyering though is when people are sticklers for the rules even when it hurts the game in various ways. Some examples: A) Insisting on looking up obscure or complex rules even when it doesn't really matter, slowing down the pace of the game. B) Arguing long points on somewhat vague rules despite the GM's call when, again, it doesn't really matter. C) Putting up resistance to fun homebrew rules the GM wants to use *solely* because "that's not in the rules" D) Frequently arguing that a GM's ruling is wrong, especially on technicalities E) Insisting on following the rules *when the result of the rules makes no sense in the world of the game*. Often exceptions to certain rules exist to protect the fiction of the game, but they're a real pain to find and look up. A fighter player might innocently believe that when they wake up to find an assassin holding a dagger to their neck, the thief can only deal about 1d4 damage with it, which is nothing to a high level adventurer. However, this makes no sense. The fighter doesn't have any magical defensive skin, their HP is a representation of their ability to avoid getting hit in the first place. If a dagger slices their neck open they're going to die without some healing magic. The same comes from falling 100 feet. Yes, this only does 10d6 damage in some systems, but no you *cannot* survive a drop from 100 feet without magic or special abilities. The narrative should just kill you. Rules lawyers often try to find rules for everything, which slows stuff down a lot, and are unwilling to let the narrative take over. They disrupt the game, get in the way of moving the story along to the exciting parts, etc. This is a distinct problem from the type of manipulative lawyering.
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